Thursday, July 12, 2007

What is Church...?

Last week I wrote a post Cultural Byproduct or Biblical Prerequisite?, that in a sense was a follow up post to one entitled Cultural Shifts within the American Church. Since then there has transpired an ongoing conversation with another blogger. The following post is part of this ongoing conversation around the cultural shifts taking place, current church culture and structure, as well as community interactions... If you are new to the blog, you may want to read those two posts, along with their corresponding comments to jump fully into the conversation...

It should be noted first of all, that we are living at a unique time in history. There are major shifts taking place in the ways people process, understand and communicate information. Many sociologist use descriptions such as post-literate, post-enlightenment, post-modern and so forth. All of these are and will continue to have significant effect on how followers of Jesus gather, interact and communicate. I spent an hour-and-a-half last night conversing about all of this with about 15 other people. It was an exciting conversation to say the least… All that to say, there is a lot going on…and much more is happening than the specific examples we are referencing…none of which I’ll have time or space to go into here… That’s my take at a lame disclaimer – saying –with all that being said, there are other factors to be considered as well…

Anonymous mentioned:

“We also have a number of staged productions, a cool way of sharing the gospel, but is all of the staging necessary? It's a great way to serve masses, but doesn't serve to connect people to other people in the church? Is that the only way weekly Sunday church can be done?”

I agree with this in that, often Sunday morning gatherings do not serve well to “connect people to other people.” There are a number of contributing factors such as, fixed seating. It would be great to have a room (not on a slant), with unbolted chairs, moveable, re-designable from week to week, and much more conducive for “connecting people” and fostering interactive community. (And yet, is Sunday morning the only time/place that can/is/should happen?). This is one of the reasons we frequently throw out a topic and/or a question to be conversed over by people in the audience. We believe people have a part to play, and one of them is speaking into the life of the community, not to mention the palatable insights, wisdom, perspective and experiences that may be gained by others. It is also a way to help people “connect” and interact, as well as talk about “spiritual things.” Something many people don’t (for whatever reason) do regularly.

Western American Church culture is such that people often have expected to come into a big room (the sanctuary), face one direction, and listen to the “sage on the stage” dispense the heavenly wisdom for the day. They don’t typically come predisposed and ready to engage in a community conversation, etc. (This is one of the elemental shifts that is taking place. Historically it has had its place, and is still useful in some regards, though perhaps in need of some tweaking.)

Additionally, this is one of the reasons that we try to incorporate various means of communication or as anonymous put it “staging.” The goal here isn’t to be slick, trendy or even cool. The goal is to engage and communicate to a room full of people coming from various backgrounds, learning styles, life experiences, and so on.

Look at Scripture.

How did God communicate to humanity throughout Scripture?

Personally, one-on-one, visions, dreams, lightening, thunder, earthquakes, smoke, smells, angels, prophets (speaking, yelling, weeping, writing, miming [i.e. acting out prophetic messages without any words. Like Ezekiel laying on his side for many days… or when he build a clay tablet, drew a picture of the city…then smashed it.], Jesus with mud, sand, birds, flowers, pearls, fields, and on and on…

God/Jesus communicated in 3-D, iMax, Dolby-Surround Sound, Interactive, experiential, didactic, linear, loopy, visual, emotional, auditory, tactical, kinesthetic and essentially any means possible. It seems that God took the perspective, as Shakespeare once said, “the whole world is a stage.” God created humanity unique and different, therefore, if we are to follow His example, we must employ a variety of creative-communication components (be that an image, text on a screen, a lazy-boy, other people from the community, dramas, videos, or even a treadmill).


The intention is always as the Apostle John wrote in 1 John 1:1-4:

1-That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our
eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life-- 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us-- 3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things we write to you that your joy may be full. (1 John 1:1-4 NKJ)

I love how the Message translates these verse:

1 From the very first day, we were there, taking it all in--we heard it with our own ears, saw it with our own eyes, verified it with our own hands. 2 The Word of Life appeared right before our eyes; we saw it happen! And now we're telling you in most sober prose that what we witnessed was, incredibly, this: The infinite Life of God himself took shape before us. 3 We saw it, we heard it, and now we're telling you so you can experience it along with us, this experience of communion with the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 Our motive for writing is simply this: We want you to enjoy this, too. Your joy will double our joy! Walk in the Light. (1 John 1:1-4 The Message)

Therefore, I strongly believe it (the Sunday stage) has its place. Yet, also agree, connecting people (especially on a Sunday morning where there are a number of preconceived notions of what it means to “go to church.” [If that is even feasible! Can someone “go to church”? is that even biblical. Selah…).

Anonymous also asked, “Is that the only way Sunday church can be done.”

What if this Sunday we unbolted all the seats, and spent from 10:30-12:00pm in small clusters of conversation around some particular ideas…? Would that qualify as church? It would (potentially) serve better to “connect” people… (If anybody has a way of unbolting seats, filling in a large room with concrete/wood to level it out, and the resources to buy new seats, tables, [you can even throw in some espresso machines], let me know… I’ll help you…) All that to say, “no” this isn’t the only way to do “church service.” We are trying more and more (with what we have) to ask ourselves how can we communicate what God’s heart is, get people to interact with that heart, even each other, and ultimately keep becoming the people God has purposed us to be-coming…

This is perhaps where other environments come into play to help foster what a Sunday morning may not be able to… Church DOES NOT equal Sunday at 10:30 am. (Yet for many, this is not the subliminal-subconscious understanding. This too, is one of the “shifts” taking place.) Church is bigger than Sunday morning… Much Bigger. True Christian formation takes place in the “market place,” around the dinner table, in the break-room, in the serving (be it in the church building – helping to facilitate ministry and engage people, or somewhere in the streets of South Bend or beyond, or a host of other expressions…

Anonymous, commented that:

“Churches can operate like restaurants….Did the servant ever really get to know the customer? Did the customer get to know the servant or just the service. Jesus heart is here somehow, it's got to be.”

Interesting thoughts…

I can see where anonymous is coming from. One of the things I appreciate in this statement, is that it is written with a sense of hope, “Jesus heart is here somehow, it’s go to be.”

I believe Jesus has given the church community a responsibility to “serve” those He has brought their way. In a way, I suppose this could be like a restaurant. Hopefully, we’re serving something worth eating… Part of that responsibility should instill an element of doing things right, good, and with a sense of excellence. And yet, perhaps unlike, or more than any restaurant, we’re not just “waiting” on people to get a better tip. Hopefully, prayerfully with some intentionality there will be authenticity, love, care, and sincere interaction-engagement-communication and community development. (With the understanding that according to Hall’s theory of intimacy, some people want very much to be engaged on a personal level and some people would rather not even have some one ask them their name nor shake their hand upon entering a service.) The challenge becomes, how do we (help those “serving”) grow in this type of discernment, love etc etc etc to practice these qualities? Perhaps that’s where some of the “critique” that you spoke of should come in…?

Again, as stated in the disclaimer, there’s much more going on than my feeble post currently addresses.
…may the conversation continue…

14 comments:

Anonymous said...

First off, let me start by saying that I think you Pastor J. are so cool!

This is awesome. I was just sitting back in the warm summer breeze this afternoon thinking to myself, What is church?/ I don't know anymore. Why do I go to church? I feel so free to ask that question, b/c all my life I've gone and I thought I knew why and I got frustrated with what I thought I knew and now I can learn again. Praise God! How refreshing.

Cooler still there are others to converse with, others like you. Who are these 15 people you discussed with? Why are they not blogging as well? It would be cool to hear from them.

You said, "one of the reasons that we try to incorporate various means of communication or as anonymous put it “staging.” The goal here isn’t to be slick, trendy or even cool. The goal is to engage and communicate to a room full of people coming from various backgrounds, learning styles, life experiences, and so on."

My next question is why if we have so many people coming from various backgrounds, learing styles, life experiences, and so on do we keep on predominatly reaching out to them with staged/media style of communication. Why not communicate to people using as various communication styles b/c of our various people. It doesn't have to cost anything really. It might take more time planning/scheduling. Small groups, gatherings in people's homes, summer picnics, park fellowships, whatever fits the season. There may be lots of small groups going on behind the scenes in our church, you don't know about them unless you know people and some of the groups are exclusive, some are not perhaps others are just not encouraged to go? I don't know. For example, the Latino Fellowship says all are welcome in the bulletin, when I visited there were only a few spanish speaking there. They might enjoy some more company?

It doesn't surprise me that I've struck a chord with you talking about communicating through media and onstage. You are strong on stage. My observation is that our church has a lot of people who are artistically strong serving. However, some of those people may not be ready for a stage.

You said, "How did God communicate to humanity throughout Scripture?"

Here's an important question for you Pastor Jerrell, how do you think God is communicating to you right now?

Quote- "Personally, one-on-one, visions, dreams, lightening, thunder, earthquakes, smoke, smells, angels, prophets (speaking, yelling, weeping, writing, miming...“the whole world is a stage.” God created humanity unique and different, therefore, if we are to follow His example, we must employ a variety of creative-communication components...
how can we communicate what God’s heart is, get people to interact with that heart, even each other, and ultimately keep becoming the people God has purposed us to be-coming…"

I think it is imperative that we get the church body to interact with eachother in order to communicate what God's heart is b/c 1Cor. 14:26, "When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthing of the church." NIV

You also said, "Hopefully, prayerfully with some intentionality there will be authenticity, love, care, and sincere interaction-engagement-communication and community development."

Even by asking you the questions, I am leaning towards the intentionality that you are talking about. Right?

I realize that church can happen anywhere. Some of the best personal God encouters I've had have been on the street, even here in South Bend. My desire is to have more personal God encounters like the one I had with you on the Rice and Chicken, but with others in my church family too. Typically we all gather on Sunday mornings only, changing the style might evoke different interactions.

You asked, "The challenge becomes, how do we (help those “serving”) grow in this type of discernment, love etc etc etc to practice these qualities? Perhaps that’s where some of the “critique” that you spoke of should come in…?"

This brings me to my next question on Mentoring. Not all of us are ready for a stage. Mentoring is where it's been hard for me. More later...

You are cool.

Jerrell Jobe said...

I'll enage those thoughts and questions soon...

....I have to get back to my interactive-betime-story-time with micah...

but I have a thought for you to ponder...

I propose we come up with a Blogger name for you... It's getting hard for me to keep typing "Anonymous" again and again (do you know how many times I've had to run spell checker on that one word -smile-)....

And, who knows, there may be another up-and-coming "Anonymous" out there who will join the conversation... I'd hate to get you two confused :-)

So... something like "Morpho" (Jackrabbit, Confused Sojourner, Big Red, Happy, So on).... But a little something to identify you in conversation and not get your Anonymous-ness confused with another, while preserving your Anonymous-ness....

....Any thoughts?

Anonymous said...

Yeah, I thought about that this morning. It'd be cool for others to join in this conversation and comment as well. Someone else may want to be anonymous too. Anyone can do it.

Perhaps I could be A1 and if someone else wanted to be anonymous they could be A2?

You said, "This is one of the reasons we frequently throw out a topic and/or a question to be conversed over by people in the audience. We believe people have a part to play, and one of them is speaking into the life of the community..."

I think throwing out a topic in the sactuary on Sun. is good, but the question is controlled by you and there is a very limited amount of time.

Conversations such as this one allow me to ask my own questions and have them addressed over time so that something God is already working in me gets worked further. Like you said, "...not to mention the palatable insights, wisdom, perspective and experiences that may be gained by others." In this way you and I both may benefit, like the theraputic writing P. Edgar mentioned. I think what is in each of us already should come out in our church community to help us and maybe help someone else.

Jerrell Jobe said...

Several random thoughts...

As you pointed out with the usage of 1 Cor. 14 (and rightly so), each has a different expression... and according to 1 Cor. 12 and other parts of 14 - not everybody's place is the "stage." For some that may be part of their gifting (i.e. teaching, etc...) and thus they may "not be ready for the stage" (though for the record I think the 'gift of teaching' is effectively utilized in many other places and spaces than just a stage to masses of people). I would contend there are various gifts of teaching, as there is healing, and even all of those that are not demonstrated or exercised in "out front" ways. So the goal isn't to get people ready for the stage... Developing, transforming and engaging is...

Also... I agree... As you mentioned, it is "imperative" to have a variety of environments where people can interacted, engage, be challenged, connected and encouraged to ongoing growth...

For many Sunday's will encapsulate these elements, or at least some of them.

As I mentioned before, and from your comment you implied: "Church" does not equal only a Sunday morning gathering. Sunday mornings have a significant place in the life of a group of believers. Something happens in corporate worship/teaching/celebrating/etc...

But Sunday mornings can't replace being on "the streets in South Bend" as you said. God is there... There are things that can only be learning/experienced but by going, being, etc. That's part of our personal-spiritual transformation...

As is, other expressions mentioned like small groups, other learning environments, and missional expressions, 'positive' mentoring relationships, and so son...

It is also true, that when we "throw out a topic" it is somewhat controlled. At least in that, it is directive to an area or subject.

But consider... in traditional American church, this is unheard of... There is no place for interaction, or input from members of the community. Therefore, though it still be somewhat directed, it is a HUGE step forward and toward enlarging the voices/ears of the community at large to participate in the conversation.

Though "somewhat controlled," it is still a wide open door... If you recall last Sunday when P. Edgar encouraged the congregation to talk about "changes that have taken place in the Church between 1997 and 2007". The context was the "Church" at large - in America. However, 95% of the answers that came back weren't about big picture observations, rather they were people's take on Calvary's past 10 years. Additionally, 95% of those comments could have been perceived to be from the negative perspective of the shifts that have taken place.

That's a lot of freedom and vulnerability by the person leading the conversation, in this case P. Edgar. If he would have truly wanted to "control" the conversation, he could commented on each comment, not to mention offered a countering perspective of a positive perception currently held by many others in the room, though they remain silent... That too, demonstrates a tremendous amount of freedom in the context of a "controlled question."

Though, there needs to be spaces for total 'buck-shot' conversations about whatever-whoever wants to talk about, Sunday's corporate gathering may not frequently be the best place for that. We still believe that there are things that God wants to speak into the life of His people - the people of Calvary Temple. Part of the leadership's responsibility is to seek, sense, discern those things and then attempt to effectively communicate that to the people. This being the case, there will always be an element of direction to the "service." The questions, interactions will be influenced by those under-currents, yet the goal is to continually encourage more interaction, ownership, and encountering of that heart...that which God is trying to communicate and develop within His people.

Again, there are other places and spaces for the community to interact and grow as well... Such as the one's you highlighted, smaller groups of people, picnics (this Aug 29), ultimate-frizbe games (Most Mondays), mass father-son sand sculpting outings at the beach (coming up July 29), Full Multi-Sensory "Journey Encounter" experiences (coming Sept/Nov), day-long spiritual retreats (Sept 29), medium-sized learning environments (this summer: Study of the Book of Hebrews "Rudders, Anchors & the North Star" and "Color Outside the Lines: An Exploration of Learning, Creativity & Communication" - the last one there would be where I was a part of an hour-an-half conversation about all the above that you were asking about), other small group conversations, etc etc...

These aren't exhaustive, and we (I) by no means got it all figured out!

For me, learning, transformation and spiritual growth has happened in a number of environments, interactions and relationships... (As stated somewhere above - there are a number of additional components in the big picture - not all presently touched on - depending on where a person's at in their journey some of these may not be the best "prescription" for the now).

...great conversation...look forward to more!

Anonymous said...

P. Jerrell,
I wouldn't be able to think back 10 years with Calvary. I haven't been here that long. Let me say that Calvary does do a lot of things well! That why I'm here.

Even though I haven't been here long I have however served in a variety of areas, besides feeling called to them, serving was my approach to connecting. WAS. I valued the opportunity to serve on Wednesday nights as part of my development. Unfortunatly Wednesday nights are also when development classes are offered. There are things to be learned in the doing, things that can't be learned in the sitting, I guess.

I am glad you mentioned your Wed. night class. Servants are scarce behind the scenes. More people seem to be taking classes sometimes. I remember when you had the Velvet Elvis class. Should a confused sojourner like me be serving or should I be taking your classes first? I would like to ask you how you feel about connecting people to opportunities to develop in areas of service as like maybe a next step to your classes.

What do you think about the fact that families are not really together on "Family Night", if Wed. is still called that. People committed to serving roles are not able to attend development classes even if they want to, how do you feel about that? Are we missing out? Could your classes ever be at a dif. time? Not saying that you are not already there enough.

A1

Jerrell Jobe said...

Saw Ratatouille yesterday afternoon with Micah... We both enjoyed it... Several great clips - with key quotes and messages...

A1, you asked some interesting thoughts...

"Should a confused sojourner like me be serving or should I be taking your classes first?"

First of all, my take on discipleship/spiritual formation is that "one size does NOT fit all." Therefore, I can't say for sure which environment would have been best for at that time... I can take what I've gathered and give you my initial thoughts... (With the understanding that as I've said before -- there's always more going on - the big picture is the key... Otherwise there's often a missing element in the 'prescription.')

Based on the assumption that there seems to still be a number of former "mind-sets, thought patterns, etc" that God is deconstructing as it relates to how you see yourself, as well as God...

You mentioned on June 20th on "chicken and rice" that
"I am still slowly learning what heavenly things are that I might set my mind on them."

Taken that in to account, as well as your comment on June 21st that you "just got saved."

It is apparent that you have been "around church" and even been involved... yet... at the same time it seems that there's still been quite a bit of disconnectedness, discontent, and perhaps even disillusionment, not to mention some sojourning confusion with your relationship with God in a pure sense (from His perspective - not the shaping of experiences, etc)...

If all these are somewhat accurate, than in this case (though there's always a shortage of "behind the scenes" people), I'd say your journey may have been better served connecting with some type of 'growth environment' like Velvet Elvis...

Jerrell Jobe said...

A1,

Currently Wednesday's are the major medium sized growth environments... Perhaps some people could cycle in and out each semester... In addition, I would hope we have/or/could create such an environment where those serving (as well as leaders) are sensitive to their own journey, where they are at, and what's most needed.

Further, my prayer is that as "Church doesn't = Sunday mornings" (though Sundays are a significant component), likewise "Wednesday Night Growth/Class environments do not = spiritual formation" (though they be significant as well). True Christian formation consists of Knowing, Seeing, sensing, and Doing.

But as to offering "other nights" as you asked... Great question...

Several things that I'm pretty excited about that will transpire on nights other than Wednesdays...

Monday - 1 night - seminar type environments like the one we did (and will do again) last spring "discovering your essence."

Retreats: both 1-day spiritual directed type retreats, weekend away retreats, etc...

Journey Encounters: full-on multi-sensory environments with less emphasis on one person talking, more emphasis on the whole environment being designed encounter a truth - - that could very well then be the spring board for a number of small clusters of people engaging an ongoing conversation...

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your assessments in these last 2 comments. I really appreciate your thoughtfulness. I will consider them heavily.

I was thinking that you might want to call me A1 Sauce, because there actually is such a thing, but I've decided just A1 is still good. You been reading a lot and doing a good job of remembering and tracking my comments.

The one about "just got saved" was powerful in my life and pivotal to the conversation I am still having with you and (others who may be reading). Hi everyone! The saved thing was kind of a follow up to the blog called "Saved" on Chicken and Rice. We are all being saved, in process along our journies. What's your take? Anyway, I liked that P. Edgar pointed out that a person could approach the alter for salvation many times, even someone destined to lead many others to Christ. I heard P. Edgar say once that as a youth pastor he listened to a message with his youth group and got saved. You could call it deliverance? I wasn't expecting deliverance to take place on Rice and Chicken. I awaite more deliverance. Also, I am in a place of having my faith restored I think.

A1

Jerrell Jobe said...

A1,

What's "my take" on the "saved" post? [http://mamasrice.blogspot.com/2007/06/saved.html]

In short, AGREE FULLY... There has been far too much emphasis on "sealing the deal" and "praying a prayer." I don't think God is interested in "making decisions," I believe He's interested in "making disciples," which is more than "a prayer" - it's a way of life, a journey of restoration of the whole person... I'm jazzed that your "faith is being restored," as well as perhaps in some ways and discovering what true faith is...

...the journey is the destination.

Anonymous said...

GO to bed you have church in the morning.

A1

Anonymous said...

Sorry I tried to make a funny in that last comment.

WoW! Today's sermon was a community breakthrough. History in the making.

WoW! What you, P. Jerrell, said last night to me in the comments made another personal breakthrough for me!

I am more impressed with my personal breakthrough, and just to be able to say this is even a breakthrough because I used to be more concerned with my community than I was about myself. I don't think I knew how to be concerned with myself though. God thinks about me a lot. There is a key there, that He thinks(is concerned) about me. Maybe He is showing me how to think?

I received so much peace last night after you confirmed my faith restoration and my journey being the destination. It is huge for me to believe that where I am at right now is where I need to be. I draw so much security(peace of God)and hope, definately hope, from that, you just don't even know.

I went to my usual spot where I seek the Lord this afternoon after church and I asked God to make it clear to me why I am where I am. He said to believe that I am beautiful as He made me and then He would show me. I asked Him where is it that my faith has failed within me. He said I am not content. He said that I must believe/trust, not rely on Him. There is a big differnce in believing and relying. Any thoughts? Could sure use any help you have to offer, and no I am not looking for a prescription. Haha. Thanks for being sensitve to not give me one before.

P. Edgar said today something about what we could do for the community b/c of who we are as a church. I would like to further embrace who we are, who I am.

Thank you again P. Jerrell.

A1

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah, good job taking Micah to Ratatouille. Did you notice that the sermon today mentioned waiting on tables? It was something like,"do not neglect the ministry of the word of God to wait on tables hand and foot needs to be done". Remember? Passage about Paul? What is your take?

God delights in us.

Yeah, also, I read books by John and Stasi Eldredge. You were wondering. They understand God delighting in us I think. I like their writing/creativity. To me, mentoring is about getting to know God. Dissolusionment as you put it before happened when I didn't get to know God.

A1

Jerrell Jobe said...

A1,

How COOL is that... It's pretty exciting to read what God's doing in you...

...God is interested in you... your growth... your wholeness...

My new post may in some regards seem somewhat contradictory, but it's not. God is interested in our personal development and transformation. I believe that this transformation is a process and journey. Salvation is more than an individualistic prayer to ensure one's eternal destiny, it is a journey into wholeness.

Community is a significant part of this transformation... And at the same time, (as in your case) it seems that there are times and seasons where God becomes very intentional about what He's doing in our lives... During these times our awareness of what God in doing in us is heightened, but this is not necessarily the same as what's dealt with in the next post "What is the Gospel?".

I concur, yesterday's service was SUPER cool, timely and seemingly significant in the life and future of our community.

Anonymous said...

P. Jerrell,

Thank you for helping me and others to make this connection.

A1